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jerryatrics says | |||
| Depressive Realism In a recent Damn Interesting article (http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=864 ), Christopher Putnam writes about the cognitive distortions that, at least in part, underlie many mental disorders. He notes that most of us hold cognitive biases in three main areas: 1. View ourselves in unrealistically positive terms; 2. Believe we have more control over our environment than we in fact do; 3. Have a more positive attitude about the future than is justified by extant evidence. He tells us about something that at first may put a chill on your day: depressive realism. “This theory puts forward the notion that depressed individuals actually have more realistic perceptions of their own image, importance, and abilities than the average [non-depressed] person.” The depressed person is actually being realistic in assessing himself and the world. Well, that’s depressing. It is depressing to think that my wife stays with me because I provide her with a secure income; it may be true, but isn’t there something else there too? It’s depressing to think that my work mate is nice to me because he has no choice and given his druthers, he would rather be talking to someone else; it too may be true, but isn’t there some bond between us? Or your boyfriend needs sex. Or the saleslady needs a sale. Or your father needs to fulfill his duty. On and on, we could go through many examples where the backend “reality” seems to detract from the face “reality.” When I was a teenager, I thought that my true personality came out when I got drunk; we all did back then. I was a little nervous about this truth-serum effect of alcohol because all I really cared about was sex and sports, but I thought I was the only guy who had such base emotions and I certainly didn’t want anyone to know the real me. I was an okay athlete and I never got to try sex very much, so I had only optimism about what I could do if given the chance. If we could take a truth serum to a therapy session with a friend from work, or the wife and kids, or that sweet, innocent girl friend, what would we discover? Would it be depressing? Is it depressing to realize that that cute little cheer leader is in reality a horney little tramp; the self-effacing wife is terrified of being left alone, penniless, with no one to sleep with; or, the faithful father yearns for freedom from his duties, and just wants to be left alone? Perhaps these are good questions that deserve another thread. But first I would like to hear what you have to say about them. Let me give you are fore thought: there is a logical fallacy in Mr. Putnam’s analysis. I will explain next “session.” . |
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| Total Topic Karma: 10 | - More by this Author | |||
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Ati says |
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| As far as viewing our relationships with other people, I don't think you can reasonably expect motivations from another person purer than your own. If you don't want to be talking to the co-worker either, or don't honestly want to talk to dead old dad for the fiftieth time this week, it might be unreasonable to expect him to have better views of you. Just my view on the matter. |
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| - Author's History - 16 June, 2007 | |||||
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oilaven! says |
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| My psychiatrist told me I'm constantly mildly depressed, sort of like a slightly low parallel to normality. And sometimes I do feel more "realistic" than most others, but it might just be a self-serving bias at work. | |||||
| - Author's History - 17 June, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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| oilaven! Are you constantly mildly depressed? Never mind what your shrink told you for right now. How do you feel from day to day? What is a self-serving bias at work? |
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| - Author's History - 17 June, 2007 | |||||
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zenmonk says |
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| My guess, Oilaven! seems to be saying he values 'realism' vs. 'optimism', so feeling 'realistic' gives him a nice self-congradulatory ego-stroking. "1. View ourselves in unrealistically positive terms; 2. Believe we have more control over our environment than we in fact do; 3. Have a more positive attitude about the future than is justified by extant evidence." 1. is clearly self-evident, look at any executive. 2. Hmmm, executives again. Srsly tho, shit happens. You'd prevent it if you could, but you can't. It's humbling to think of the things we don't control. 3. Hope springs eternal. For my own part, I'm happy to be an infinitessimal mote on the face of the universe with virtually no say about anything. As far as the future is concerned, I'll make plans for the day, but I'm trying to get away from it, since it's only a source of frustration. Any further out than that, it's a question of where do I want to be in the future? Let's start moving in that direction now...but I don't assemble a detailed battle plan or anything. More often then not, a more attractive alternative pops up as you travel the road to your destination. And I'm not depressed...in fact, I'm probably one of the more well-balanced folk you'll meet. Not outwardly ecstatically happy or even cheerful necessarily, but inwardly content. I don't have much of an ego to speak of, and I'm not really interested in defending it...I'm more interested in finding, seeing and knowing truth and getting myself in line with that which is. |
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| - Author's History - 18 June, 2007 | |||||
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Ati says |
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| I like to consider myself a realist, but that might be my ego talking. I try to avoid depression though. It seems a waste of time. |
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| - Author's History - 19 June, 2007 | |||||
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QuantumBeep says |
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| I suspect I would be labeled as "chronically depressed", although I've learned to be aware of the difference between being unhappy for a reason and being under the effects of depression - I fight depression as much as I can. The truth is, I'm not very sanguine about the direction my life will take if I don't work really hard. I'm not exactly privileged, and I have no social skills to speak of besides being exceptionally "nice". My natural path would probably lead me to living in a trailer park somewhere for the rest of my days. So anyhow, my silver-bullet depression cure is hard work, since hard work is the only solution to my fears. |
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| - Author's History - 19 June, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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| QuantumBeep You may not agree, but you are blessed if you can work hard to manage your depression; many depressed people cannot. The question is what do you believe about yourself, the world, life? Are the assumptions you have made about yourself and the world at least in part the cause of the depression? Ati likes to avoid depression because it is a waste of time. What do you think about depression being a waste of time and that being a good reason to avoid it? Does fear=depression? |
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| - Author's History - 19 June, 2007 | |||||
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QuantumBeep says |
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| Fear != depression, but it can cause it, I think. Of course depression is a "waste of time", but so is cancer and Fascism. You can't just wave a magic wand and make it go away - if it's just a matter of "getting over it", it's not true depression (correct me if I'm wrong). Working hard only helps; it doesn't manage it entirely. It comes and goes in swings. Maybe I just haven't outgrown my teenage years. |
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| - Author's History - 19 June, 2007 | |||||
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Ati says |
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| Well, unlike cancer of fascism, depression can be ignored, and it won't kill you. A certain level of emotional suppresion can be developed with time. | |||||
| - Author's History - 19 June, 2007 | |||||
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QuantumBeep says |
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| No, it won't kill you, but real depression can be really crippling. | |||||
| - Author's History - 19 June, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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| I have to disagree. Depression kills quite a number of people every year. It appears to more than a waste of time. It is a waste of life-energy units. | |||||
| - Author's History - 20 June, 2007 | |||||
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Viczy says |
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| Life-energy units? Do expand. | |||||
| - Author's History - 25 June, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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| Hi Viczy, it's been awhile. Through genetics and environment, we are given a quantity of energy, called life-units. This is what we have to do our life with. Units can be added or subtracted by various events and life-style choices, but by and large energy units are fixed at some point in development. Depression, for example takes life units away, to the point of death. Ideally we will die with an abundance of life energy units because we have lived well and done good deeds, which add some units. Of course upon death all energy life units are returned to the source. It is like karma but without the obvious value judgments of good and bad. Life energy units are neutral, even though doing good increases them, this is in the mind of the liver, not in some outside force that makes the judgment. If I believe that my actions are good, that will increase my life energy units. I could on and on, but I'm sure you get the idea. I developed the idea because I noticed certain people seemed to suck life energy units away from other people, me in particular. And some people seemed to add life energy units, even in casual contact with them. The good parent gives life energy units to the child and the bad parent subtracts them. I noticed that after talking to certain people I felt tired and needed some time to recuperate but after talking to some other people, I had more enthusiasm for life. There are people who chronically live in a deficit range, many of whom follow Paris Hilton's recent travails assiduously, and some prominent people, like Bush/Cheney who seem to get energy from stealing other people's. Comedians habitually give energy units away for free, sometimes to their own detriment. Some, like Steve Martin, lose this ability to make people laugh and stop giving energy away, becoming instead an energy sink, in which they try to reverse the flow and therefore create anti-energy, which annihilates life-energy units. Like all energy you can see the effects of these units but may not be able to see or measure them in any direct way. However, the person who develops a method for measuring them, will get many life-energy units. Belief systems can add a great deal to life energy units or take them away. The energy/anti-energy balance is crucial to effective life on Earth, which is why America is in dire straights at this time. Maybe I have too much time on my hands. |
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| - Author's History - 25 June, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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I just realized that post was truly geeky. Swell, I say.  |
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| - Author's History - 25 June, 2007 | |||||
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Re(V)aN says |
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| i am pessimistic, optomistic, depressed, and exuberant all at once. i call my condition pessimisctically cynical, but with a slight amount of hope |
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| - Author's History - 26 June, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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| Pessimistically cynical with slight amount of hope, ok. I hate to pin you down, but are you depressed? | |||||
| - Author's History - 26 June, 2007 | |||||
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Viczy says |
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| So, a sort of subjective karma? I can dig that. | |||||
| - Author's History - 01 July, 2007 | |||||
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jerryatrics says |
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| Yes, subjective karma seem like adequate words. There is no right or wrong but thinking (believing) makes it so. | |||||
| - Author's History - 02 July, 2007 | |||||
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